This is to serve as part of the website I am building:

http://glassmanwebdesign.web44.net/

Here is the logo:



I thought it was pretty neat having the text in the middle, apparently some people I've asked don't like it. So I thought I'd ask others for feedback on this design - if you like it or not and why, if you think the text in the middle is clear/ stands out (or not) and so on.

Please take under account the use of the logo in the web-page (I need something that fits in there).

Thanks!

Ifat Glassman

I'm sorry to say this and I really don't mean this to sound mean but it's pretty terrible. The logo lacks all the qualities of a well crafted logo. It looks like it was made in Photoshop, logos should be made in a vector program such as Illustrator. Also the website has some pretty bad graphic work. It uses graphic styles that were popular in 1995.

It's fine. However, I don't understand what exactly you're talking about regarding the graphics and what was popular in 1995?

If you're referring to the shadow - then yes, that one is pretty rough and needs work. I still also need to smoothen the edges of many of my images.
Are you talking about anything else?

Regarding the logo... it's been made in GIMP. But what exactly is bad about it? This is the first one I've done, so I don't know what qualities a well crafted logo has. Can you give more details? What exactly is wrong with it?

Just saying "this is terrible" is not exactly helpful.

I suggest you get a little inspiration....

check out some inspirational sites like logopond.com or cssheaven.com.

When you build a logo - you want to test it out in various sizes. What would your logo look like on something small.. say business card sized or even smaller - a pen?

Also when designing logos - you should first work with black and white. If the logo works without any effects and in black and white - then you know you're onto the right path.

As it stands with what you've got now - it doesn't scream creative. It's pretty bland and generic.

Jen: You make a good point about the logo having problems on a smaller scale. I've never encountered the idea of working in black and white first, but I can see why it would be a good idea.
I think I'll try something new, although I still don't see what is "terrible" about the existing one (other than the finish which is rough - the edges are, that is). Maybe it's the size that is tacky? Dunno, I thought the small font in the middle makes up for it by making the big font look as a background-picture thus making it look overall elegant.
But sure, if I had created big flashy letter screaming "Glassman design" that would be terrible. So, maybe I didn't do a good job toning the big font down... Don't know, I'm trying to figure out in detail what is the problem, b/c without knowing exactly what it is that is wrong, I can't learn from my experience.


As for the website: Overall, I like what I have going on at my website now (the main page - I haven't finished building the others, I just put it online to be able to show some people what I have going). I don't LOVE it, but I like it and for now I'm going to stick with it and just polish it up (remove rough edges, make the shadow smoother, smaller and so on).
I'm really not looking to make something "fashionable", but just something that looks polished and that I like.
Still, if anyone can provide details as to what it is they don't like (or like) I'd be happy to hear.

I appreciate you telling me your opinion.

Thanks for the advice and if you have something extra I'd love to hear it.

Hi Ifat,

Your logo needs improving in several ways.

Your image is complex. Three things cause this. Upper- and lowercase lettering, outlines on the letters, and, especially, the term "Web Design" overlaying the name. The unrelated and conflicting lines and spaces weaken the image.

Your typeface is bland. Real glass is hard, flat, all straight lines and sharp corners, and transparent. Your lettering is soft, round and puffy. You might try looking at a very light version of Neue Helvetica in all caps, set with letters almost touching. It would give you the incisive quality of glass. There are other possibilities.

Your color is bland. Sky blue is for baby blankets. When I think of glass, skyscrapers come to mind -- black, dark gray, gunmetal blue, aluminum, full of reflections and angles. Your experience may be different. You might look at some photos to see how glass behaves in nature.

Lose the outlines. They add muddiness, when what you want is simplicity and clarity. Fine type is high art. The correct typeface in a solid color will not need adornment. To test this, visualize any famous logo. Now imagine an outline on it. It makes it weaker.

The black & white thing is a good rule of thumb. Does your image work in black & white? At small, even tiny, sizes? At low resolution? For an image to work under these conditions, it must have clear lines and shapes, simple forms, and solid colors, the building blocks of good design.

Take the title off your name. Overlays are rarely a good idea. Overlaid, two typefaces acquire dozens of undesigned lines, shapes and spaces — some from one word, some from the other, and some from the combination — that muffle and confuse both words. It might help to visualize "Web Design" stuck to your car windshield. It would blither your view of the road and everything else! Keep your title separate. Best place is beneath your name.

Finally, Glassman is a picturesque name, but your business isn't about glass. The visual suggestion of glass can be interesting and memorable, but don't overdo the connection or you may be mistaken for the window washer!

Well I don't want to disappoint you. You have done a decent job in designing but I think it doesn't fit well here. Work out a bit on few more concepts as per your ideas and then show it again. I'm sure this time you will do a good job.

Thanks, John, for your elaborate reply. You have some very good ideas. I will try to apply them. I think letters without an outline would indeed be better. I will also look into how to make it appear glass-like. As of now, you're right, it does look kind of puffy, haha. Didn't think of it like that.

The comment about the logo having to work in smaller size is also important. I'm just starting, and with only 2 websites it is hard to think so far ahead as to consider business cards.

Alright, I will visit again when I make some progress. Thank you all.

Instead of a conventional logo, you might try something more memorable -- take advantage of your name and draw a glass man. Kind of like a mascot. He would need to be cute or doodly or something endearing, not clip art. Even better would be an animation. You'd want him to tell stories for you, like a cartoon. He could be transparent one day, reflective like a mirror the next; he could get in trouble and break, whatever. This is certainly beyond my personal technical skills, but take it as an idea. Once your audience connects you to the cute little glass man, they'd never forget.

Gosh, this is such a cute idea! Unfortunately, it is above my skill level now. I haven't learned to work with any animation program yet.

But your idea is so charming! I will keep it in mind for a day I can implement it.

In the meanwhile, I've worked on the logo. I had several ideas and I tried to keep it simple. I'll show you what I've done.



It doesn't look as good on a white background because some of the shine effect is gone, still, here is the full resolution images of what I've done:



I've used the great suggestions I was given by John (you have a remarkable ability of formulating design elements). It wasn't easy, but I think I did a decent job creating a glass effect. I'm uncertain how it works as a whole - maybe it is too much text.
I've also had an idea to use the S in a certain way, so I did this:


However, I think it may be too visually packed so I may have to go with the simpler version above.
What do you think?

Thanks everyone for the feedback.

One thing I should say - I am having a really hard time smoothing edges with Gimp. So I am aware of this problem and that it makes the images look unpolished. Other than that - please let me know what you think is bad (and good). I don't think I will invest a lot more time into the logo because it is taking too much time, but I would still love to hear suggestions and feedback.

You've worked hard on these, but your new images are more complex than your original!

When I say complex, what I mean is the mixture of many different elements. In this case, you've drawn a reasonable facsimile of real glass, but you've then added other, unrelated things.

In the top example, I see a backdrop (that's one thing), shadowed (that's two things), bordered (three things) in an unfamiliar shape (four things), plus the words web Design in two different typefaces and sizes, set large enough to compete with the name Glassman. With all this different stuff, what happens is that the eye has nothing to lock onto; it gets pulled in several different directions, and the energy is dissipated.

In the bottom example, your swashy word Design with that long, looping s is a totally different thing from the uppercase glass letters; basically you have two design concepts in one piece, and they neutralize each other.

And remember that thing about depicting glass too literally? Your name may be Glassman, but your site isn't about glass, yet your glass letters give the viewer the sense that it is.

You're working too hard! Instead of drawing something, think first about the message you want to make.

I suggest in your case that you want only a light association with the idea of glass, and you want to convey a sense of graphic design, meaning discipline, planning, clarity and so on. Try this:



Don't be concerned if it looks plain; it's here as an example. This is Neue (it means New) Helvetica Ultra Light. Look at its incisive lines, its sharp edges and angles, and the clarity of its letterforms -- all are not only glass-like but convey a nearly architectural sense of design. The ultra light weight is fragile (like glass), while at the same time it is clearly a mechanical drawing, rendered with planning and discipline. Faint, blue-gray is the classic color of glass.

I've hardly done any work. All I've done is typed your name, and we've let the type designer do the work.

Here's what it looks like on a business card:



This is what I mean by simple. One typeface, two sizes, no adornments, embellishments or special effects, one color. It's inexpensive, easy to do, it looks like design, and it hints of glass.

This may not be your look -- I realize it's not the look you've established on your site -- but its qualities are simplicity and clarity of expression. That's what you want to shoot for.

Hi John.

The background is not part of the logo - I just took a snapshot of the logo against my web page to show how it looks like against a dark background.

So those elements (the half-half color with shadow on the side etc) - not part of the logo at all.


Thanks for the feedback, I think you have a real talent at analyzing graphic elements and articulating it.

Don't like the business card appearance that much, but wow - thank for taking the time to do it!

I think will either stick with the first puffy logo simply because the new one does not look good on the website or change the whole curvy thing I have going on there to make the new logo fit in.

I've also started looking at vector graphic softwares because the results I get with GIMP do not seem to be smooth enough (or maybe I just need to learn more).

In any case - I'd like to finish this website and move on to building new ones, so I don't think I'll devote more time to a new logo.

Thanks again very much for your great feedback.

As you work, keep in mind that a logo is not an isolated object; it will always be seen in the context of other things, and their visual properties will either complement or clash. You want to retain control over the look and not allow unintended clashes to occur.

Just thought you'd like to see what I've done (changed). I'm still working on final details (pixel here pixel-there, browser compatibility and content) but design-wise this is finished.

http://glassmanwebdesign.web44.net/

John really knows what he is talking about. I would go back and really think about the good advice he has given you.Sometimes we get so enamored with an idea that we won't let it go. I think you are trying to be too literal with your logo. I could more understand playing up the idea of glass if you were a glass manufacturer but you are doing web design. Sometimes a subtle, connotation works better than a "in your face" approach. It looks like you might be using some kind of inner glow, bevel and gradient look which will not work well on business cards and printed materials. You have to think ahead to see how the logo will work with other marketing pieces. The logo doesn't complement the look of the mockupsite you have and it will not spend a positive message about the services you offer. You want your logo have the connotation of professionalism, reliability and other similar traits and this logo isn't saying that.